(no subject)
Mar. 21st, 2003 07:32 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
queenrileyI don't often talk about war, seeing as I'm surrounded by only three people on a semi-weekly basis, and two of those three cheer and actively support the war. The third person and I will discuss it from time to time, but it's a rare moment when we can actually state our opinions without harrassment for it by the other two (and when one isn't with us, the other is). And when I say harrassment, I mean actual harrassment. We don't get to finish our statements and I can't recall ever being able to fully explain my reasonings behind it without being told "You don't know anything. Do more research and you'll change your mind. This war is right." And that irritates me. And I get irritated by the two of them constantly sending me emails and having arguments with me over what is right and what is wrong. And I absolutely HATE being told that I, of all people, should be the biggest supporter for this war on principle, since I'm Jewish and the Iraqi government kills Jews for fun. That really pisses me off. I'm Jewish, yes. I do not want Jews around the world being killed. It's not right, but I'm not a violent person and war is not the answer to everything. Palestinians are killing Jews because they believe we invaded their homeland, but the US isn't waging a war against them are we? It's rude and arrogant, and actually a view that caused a senator to resign his position for stating it, to think that just because I am Jewish I should be the biggest supporter of this war.
My opinion, the war is neither right nor wrong. Did I want it to happen? No. But it happened. And obviously it's been in the planning stages for many months, if not years... so obviously Bush was going to have this war at some point in time and damn what the majority of his people wanted. I find it very hard to believe the statistics that 2/3rd's of US citizens support this war. For one, oddly, I don't remember ever being asked or polled. So that's at least one US citizen they missed.
Back to my original point. I did not want this war to happen. But now it's happened and while I do not like it, I can't stop it, and I will support the US and British troops over there stationed in Iraq, Kuwait, and on the seas fighting for our so-called freedom. I will support them and not turn my backs on them. They are just doing their jobs and losing their lives for a war that nobody is clear of the real reason we are having it. Am I educated about the war? As much as any average American citizen can be. I watch the news. I tune in to the nightly updates. I read articles in the newspaper and online. I educate myself about the history of Iraq and the entire Middle East, which is more than I can say for SOME people I know.
Do I support this war? No. Do I support our troops? Yes. Do I think Saddam should not be in power? Yes. Do I think war was the only way to overthrow that government? Yes. Do I think we should have started this war? No. We were not asked to overthrow the government. We were not asked for help by the Iraqi people. And I know a great many of them who might have been ok with the US before will now hate us. Not for giving them a new government, not for rebuilding a shattered social system, but for starting war, for killing innocent Iraqi citizens, and for simply butting in where it has been made abundantly clear we were not wanted. Do I think this war will stop terrorism against the United States? No. I think it will make us not only more open, but a target to groups we don't even know about, groups that hadn't previously targeted us. Do I think this is a war waged because of terrorism on the United States? No. There is nothing to support the idea that Iraq is linked with Al Quada. Intelligence reports are actually still reporting that Osama Bin Laden is hiding out in the mountains of Palestine... so if this is a war on terrorism, on the terrorists that targeted us, wouldn't it make sense to wage war against Palestine? Do I think this is a war to control oil? Possibly. The problem is, nobody knows. We get conflicting reports as to the reasons for this war. I've also been told this is a war because Saddam had nuclear weapons and threatened to use them against us. Well, so does North Korea. They have more weapons than Iraq did, and they have threatened to use them more than Iraq did... plus North Korea could easily take out major parts of the US with just one missile, as they are well within striking range. We know the government of North Korea will follow up on their threats. So if this is a war against nuclear threats to the US, why aren't we waging war against North Korea instead, or even along with Iraq? Perhaps I'd feel better about it if I knew what we were fighting for. If I could get a clear and definate answer to the question of what this war is for... and I don't like the idea that Bush planted himself, the idea that he's fighting this war because Saddam targeted his father during the first Gulf War.
War is never all right nor all wrong. It's right for fixing things that need to be fixed, it's wrong because people die. I understand that we can't all just sit around and make world peace happen by talking, because I realize there are a great many people out there who seek control and power, and world peace does not give them control or power. They will always cause problems. Innocent people will always die for one persons holy war, one person's cause, one person's desires. It's not right, but it's not going to change anytime soon.
So overall, my stance is this. I do not agree with the war. I do not like war. I will support the troops over there fighting. I do not think it will stop terrorism. I do not think it will make the esteem of the US any higher in the middle east nations. I do not support the war. I support the men and women dying for it.
My opinion, the war is neither right nor wrong. Did I want it to happen? No. But it happened. And obviously it's been in the planning stages for many months, if not years... so obviously Bush was going to have this war at some point in time and damn what the majority of his people wanted. I find it very hard to believe the statistics that 2/3rd's of US citizens support this war. For one, oddly, I don't remember ever being asked or polled. So that's at least one US citizen they missed.
Back to my original point. I did not want this war to happen. But now it's happened and while I do not like it, I can't stop it, and I will support the US and British troops over there stationed in Iraq, Kuwait, and on the seas fighting for our so-called freedom. I will support them and not turn my backs on them. They are just doing their jobs and losing their lives for a war that nobody is clear of the real reason we are having it. Am I educated about the war? As much as any average American citizen can be. I watch the news. I tune in to the nightly updates. I read articles in the newspaper and online. I educate myself about the history of Iraq and the entire Middle East, which is more than I can say for SOME people I know.
Do I support this war? No. Do I support our troops? Yes. Do I think Saddam should not be in power? Yes. Do I think war was the only way to overthrow that government? Yes. Do I think we should have started this war? No. We were not asked to overthrow the government. We were not asked for help by the Iraqi people. And I know a great many of them who might have been ok with the US before will now hate us. Not for giving them a new government, not for rebuilding a shattered social system, but for starting war, for killing innocent Iraqi citizens, and for simply butting in where it has been made abundantly clear we were not wanted. Do I think this war will stop terrorism against the United States? No. I think it will make us not only more open, but a target to groups we don't even know about, groups that hadn't previously targeted us. Do I think this is a war waged because of terrorism on the United States? No. There is nothing to support the idea that Iraq is linked with Al Quada. Intelligence reports are actually still reporting that Osama Bin Laden is hiding out in the mountains of Palestine... so if this is a war on terrorism, on the terrorists that targeted us, wouldn't it make sense to wage war against Palestine? Do I think this is a war to control oil? Possibly. The problem is, nobody knows. We get conflicting reports as to the reasons for this war. I've also been told this is a war because Saddam had nuclear weapons and threatened to use them against us. Well, so does North Korea. They have more weapons than Iraq did, and they have threatened to use them more than Iraq did... plus North Korea could easily take out major parts of the US with just one missile, as they are well within striking range. We know the government of North Korea will follow up on their threats. So if this is a war against nuclear threats to the US, why aren't we waging war against North Korea instead, or even along with Iraq? Perhaps I'd feel better about it if I knew what we were fighting for. If I could get a clear and definate answer to the question of what this war is for... and I don't like the idea that Bush planted himself, the idea that he's fighting this war because Saddam targeted his father during the first Gulf War.
War is never all right nor all wrong. It's right for fixing things that need to be fixed, it's wrong because people die. I understand that we can't all just sit around and make world peace happen by talking, because I realize there are a great many people out there who seek control and power, and world peace does not give them control or power. They will always cause problems. Innocent people will always die for one persons holy war, one person's cause, one person's desires. It's not right, but it's not going to change anytime soon.
So overall, my stance is this. I do not agree with the war. I do not like war. I will support the troops over there fighting. I do not think it will stop terrorism. I do not think it will make the esteem of the US any higher in the middle east nations. I do not support the war. I support the men and women dying for it.
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(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-21 07:54 am (UTC)I commend you for taking so much time and effort to educate yourself. That's amazing - I don't take the time ...
percival
Re:
Date: 2003-03-21 07:56 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-21 09:48 am (UTC)It's good to hear from you! You've been quiet for a few days. I hope everything is going well.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-21 02:01 pm (UTC)You really know your stuff. I'm going to finish reading/watching everything I can on the PBS website that I linked on my lj. I remember having a newborn and watching the war updates every day in 1991.
Re:
Date: 2003-03-21 03:36 pm (UTC)I remember watching war coverage in school from the first Gulf War. I remember our class making little pillows to send to the troops stationed out there. I was 10 years old... 4th grade. It was quite a long time ago, but I remember it. And I remember not liking war then either. I think I spent the entire length of that war with the feeling of having a rock in my stomach.
on another note, I'm going to see Piglet's Big Movie in approximately 1 hour. I'll let you know how it is. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-21 05:50 pm (UTC)ok, Im sorry this might actualy be the begining of the end BUT: After WWII Russia and France and a few other countrys struck a deal with the Palestinian government and created Israel. (cant remember if they bought it or simply said "This part of your country, now belongs to these people") This was late 194-something. Early 195-ish the Israelian army lined up on the boarder and invade the country of Palestine with a Blitz tactic they learned from the Germans. They advanced deep into Palestine set up a "boarder" and then began PURGEING there new conquered land.
Not only did they invade Palestine and drive people from there homes, thouse who wouldnt leave were simply crushed when the tanks bulldozed the house down. *Another tacktic used by Nazies* That is if they hadnt died already by the flames from the napalmfuel fire consumeing there houses.
The state of Israel has repeatedly commited crimes against humanity on the Palastinian people, and WHENEVER the UN has said "lets put an end to the suffering, lets punish Israel, the US has Vitoed. I saw report on an Icelandic news site...(cant locate the report now, will mail later) that says that the US has Vitoed somewhere between 30 - 50 times actions against Israel since 197-something. Thats more Vitos then many nations put togather have used since the begining of the UN. IM NOT DEFENDING THE RECENT ACTIONS OF PALESTINE, there is no way to justify bombing buses filled with innocent people. But they have nothing left. Early this Year or late last year, Israel invaded Palastine again and put there leader Arafat under house arrest. They didnt talk to any sort of UN offical for many weeks untill they released a report stateing that Arafat was in the middle of stageing a BIG terroist attack on Israel and then they hid behind "pre-emptive strike". Palestine has nothing that could possibly resemble an army. There only wepons are rocks, the occational gun -and they are a rare thing-, molotov cocktails and what ever they can steal from the APC's that patroll the streets. Since that initial Blitz in 1950, Israel ha advanced at least twice deeper into Palestine.
At first when I didnt know anything about the history I supported Isreal, then I began studying and saw the methods which they used and read about the horrors they had inflicted on Palestine and thats when my support shifted. Israel is a coastal conutrie (the Palestinians gave up there coste line in the deal) which is a superb location. They got nothing but the goods and yet that wasnt enough. In more recent times all we hear is the horrors the "evil" Palestinians do. Nobody points out what happened a few hours earlier when the Israelian army invaded a birthday party and killed two men and arrested 6 others on suspision of being suicidal bombers. Maybe I am a LITTLE bit slow, but Ive never heared about bomber blowing themseelfs up at a friends B-day party "just for kicks".
Palestine has commited MANY monsterous deeds, yes, they have killed innocents, yes, they have blown up more things then a Hollywood blockbuster movie... maybe. But they have nothing left. Every other way has been blocked by US vitos.
I understand your principal of being Jewish and supporting your people, but they are the original cause of the problem.
I hope you dont take this the wrong way.
Repectfuly 626.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-21 06:06 pm (UTC)::enjoys finding sensible Americans::
Re:
Date: 2003-03-21 07:15 pm (UTC)I do not take offense to what you said. I do have a book I think you should read... to better inform you of what's going on (no it does not condemn the Palestinians and exault the Jews, it condemns them both). It's called From Beruit to Jeruselum and it's by Thomas L. Friedman. Go read it. It's definately worth it for interest, for education, and especially in these turbulent times.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-03-22 03:36 pm (UTC)And yes, things are going much better.
Preach on girly
Date: 2003-03-23 06:00 am (UTC)Hell with that kind of logic I should go and blow up Christians and string em up and hang em! woo hoo bbq.
People have been telling me that bush is our leader and we have to respect him...UM..last time I checked he was just a president..NOT a dictator...am i right? Ok..just checking. I support our troops and I support the US..but not bush. I would make a shirt that says hail to the cheif with bush picking his nose..but I would be afraid of getting shot
Re: Preach on girly
Date: 2003-03-23 02:16 pm (UTC)Re: Preach on girly
Date: 2003-03-23 02:54 pm (UTC)